Every year i read about a bunch of people dying horribly on the roads and being stuck out there in the middle of winter to the point that emergency services have to distribute water and blankets, as everyone crams onto the same 5 roads during christmas.
Meanwhile the worst that happens on public transport is being stuck for an hour or two on a relatively comfortable train that probably even has toilets.Another part of this is the disruptive people are more visible on public transport. On a bus you can see two people arguing loudly and feel unsafe from it, whereas on the road those same two people could be arguing just as much and you’d never notice it in your bubble.
The people arguing in the car are more dangerous though because:
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One of them may be driving while operating a vehicle is not the biggest thing on their mind.
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You can’t see that they may be dangerous and move away from them because you don’t know what’s happening
It’s not only people arguing, assholes who drive dangerously aren’t too likely to kill you if you took the train for your commute, but in a car you’re always a few deciseconds away from death.
this is a great point, well articulated
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It’s just that the American infrastructure is so far behind. The subway trains are so old, dirty and rundown. Not to mention graffiti everywhere. Much of the NYC Subway system, specifically track switches and signals, is still manually operated, as it still relies on the 100-year-old technology.
Most busses are still combustion engine instead of electric like most of the western world.
The US train infrastructure is an embarrassment. What China build in 20 years in high speed train is insane. The US or in this case California agreed in the same year 2008 to start om a high speed rail network. The 725 miles of track will maybe completed by 2033. In the meantime China build over 15000 km of high speed railway track. The comfort on the trains can’t even compare to air travel. Most Chinese prefer train over air.
The NYC subway system is impressive, in a way. Imagine a system that has been brutally underfunded for an entire century and basically frozen in time with barely any extension since then. Yet they still manage to keep it running and (mostly) functioning. It doesn’t surprise me that much of it relies on 100 year old technology. The money isn’t even enough for maintaining everything, let alone, massive improvements. And yes, it is an embarrassment. There are other subway networks in the world that have a similarly long history and don’t feel even remotely as neglected.
Comparing China might be a bit unfair with their wages and … efficient way of handling property, environmental and other laws but there is no need to. Just have a look at Spain for example. They started 34 years ago with their first line. It is also interesting because they built the HSR in a gauge that is incompatible with the rest of the national rail network.
the NYC subway is basically snowpiercer, it’s so utterly vital that it seems to function purely because the universe recognizes that it isn’t allowed to stop working.
Almost. Reality is even more impressive because it is so crucial for NYC, that, even in the US, authorities are investing just enough for it to not fall apart in one big bang.
You hit the nail on the head. Things get done in China. In my birth country, Netherlands, it is a drama with environmental concerns, paperwork, licenses, animals etc.
For example Netherlands introduced toll for trucks to move them to electric. But to install a charger at the trucking company, it will take upto 7 years!! That is totally insane. And since there is a change of government every 4 years or 2 years currently, everything changes again.
At least all the investment in infrastructure in China benefits its citizens. Unlike investing more in the military industrial complex.
Don’t you think having clean, reliable, innovative transport should be prioritized? How can you be proud of a 100 year old system that is crumbling and no notion of any investment. Maybe now NYC has a ‘socialist’ mayor, things will improve. But to catch up will take a long time.
That is totally insane. And since there is a change of government every 4 years or 2 years currently, everything changes again.
That’s the other thing, that I bring up with a lot of these wants (not saying that in a hateful way), is that relative to now everything seems like a good idea but in the US too, we have a new administration every so often, for us it’s 4 to 8 years (depending on how elections play out), so there’s no way for anything to really get done on an effective scale with a lot of projects that can have numerous positive societal impacts.
Relative to now all these ideas seem amazing but what happens when the next president doesn’t like them and goes, “funding cut!”?
I like public transit, but I’ve never had a crazy person try to sit on me in my car either.
lol this is the issue. It’s objectively not dangerous (or at least not more so than driving) but there are certainly some very uncomfortable situations that can happen. And I think a lot of people can’t really tell the difference between “this is an incredibly weird and uncomfortable social interaction” and “my life is in danger”.
If you’re female they could be both
The stats say otherwise.
in a car the danger is almost certainly fatal, in a bus the danger is not as likely to be fatal but is much more likely to happen
you sat in a puddle of HIV infected semen.
you moved to another seat and sat down on a used syringe.
where’s the danger in that? /s
hah, I’m reading this headline like “I’ve never accidently sat in a puddle of someone else’s piss in my car though so there’s that.”
I’ve had a crazy person trying to prevent me from taking an exit.
I have never in my entire life heard anyone in the US say public transportation is more dangerous than driving.
This is not a thing. We are all very aware that driving is incredibly dangerous.
It’s a very common thing. People are programmed to think it here. I heard someone mention a bus and 3 other people immediately piped up to agree they would never ride a bus because they would get stabbed/its far to dangerous. Fox news did it intentionally.
The fear of public transit is part of the racism and classism baked into our country.
Yeah, it’s kind of odd that Americans seem to be scared to have to interact with strangers. Internationally, the American stereotype is of being very friendly, the person who sits next to you on the bus and wants to have a conversation - which is sometimes a bit socially awkward in countries where we pretty much ignore each other. Maybe they’re different abroad? Or maybe we shouldn’t stereotype lol
It’s not about strangers == danger. I love in one of the biggest metros in the US and we have pretty crap public transport. The commuter lines from the suburbs are full of middle-income professionals, and nobody blinks about those. But transfer over to regular city lines, and it’s mostly low-income minority demographics, and people will immediately caution me about taking those lines to get to my office.
Yeah that sounds like a classism thing. TBF we have the same shit here too, and I bet most countries do.
It’s not entirely unreasonable either, I’ve lived almost all my life in inner city areas with all the problems they have. In fact, I’ve been part of the problem. I’ve been mugged, stabbed (crap stabbing, he wasn’t really committed. But I still gave him my stuff lol), stalked, beaten, hassled cos of my race, all sorts of shit. TBF some - but not all - of that was because I was engaged with that inner city life as a junkie crackhead and occasional runner. Lived much of my life like that.
But underneath that, people make community. There’s also lots of good people in those low income communities who will help you if you get in trouble, feed you if you’re hungry, just generally look out for a fellow human. I’ve had a genuine friendship with at least one very scary person. Most people, if they’re in their right minds, are pretty much okay.
I’d go so far as you say there’s more genuine community in low income areas than there is in suburbia.
Obvs I don’t know where you live and you would know much better than me what the risks are and what you’re comfortable with. Not encouraging you to step outside your comfort zone.
And it feels kinda facile to say ‘No war but the class war!’ But it’s also true that the wealthy want us to be scared of each other. They don’t want us to build community. And that’s one really good way of fighting back - just solidarity and acceptance with other people who might be different from us in one way or another.
Sorry mate, it’s evening here and I just wrote a slightly drunken rant. But after all the shit I’ve seen, I feel like most people are generally pretty decent. And we gotta look out for each other.
I definitely agree with your observations on community vs neighbors.
I do take the bus, thru those poor parts of town as it’s the only bus route that stops at my office (cheaper real estate, near an airport). There is definitely a need to be more alert and guarded in those areas, but not because of classism. It’s because in the US poor == less access health care and mental care and food security. So there’s a higher likelihood that a person who smells like piss asking for free bus fare is experiencing some mental issues that may lead to a dangerous situation. I don’t think we need to fund better security or add express routes to bypass neighborhoods. I think we need to provide a stronger social safety network to reduce the number of people walking around with mental issues and desperate economic situations.
More likely the Americans who travel abroad at all are just a different type of person. As far as I know there are plenty of Americans who will never even leave their home state, some barely leave their own town. Those are the people who have never seen a Muslim and still think they are all terrorists. Those are the people who think entire cities are constantly on fire due to evil leftists. The people who travel abroad are rarely like that, because they know better.
In other words, we meet the sane ones when they’re visiting our countries.
Yeah, in my experience regardless of country the people who want to travel are not the same ones that want a regression to isolationist BS. Especially with the US, where going to another country on holiday is not a casual thing (like with the massive influx of tourists into the spanish coast in summer, for example), the people who are there are generally are the ones that want to be there and are curious about other cultures. I don’t know if that 1:1 correlates with being “nice” or “sane”, but it certainly sets people up for not being intolerant and that’s a big part of not being a jerk.
Also I was curious and looked up the figures on travel rates. According to these rigorously validated sources (i.e. “they looked pretty good to me”) it looks like:
11% of US citizens have never traveled outside of the state where they were born. [1]
27% of US citizens have never been outside the country[2]
29% of US citizens currently live in their home town[3]
(source 1) (source 2) (source 3)This is in a surprising contrast to the EU demographics, where:
37% of European citizens have never been outside their home country[1]
(source 1)(I could find no sources for the other statistics for Europe, I’m sorry!)
Important Note:
There are other commonly cited surveys (from far less reputable research groups than Pew, it really should be noted. One of them is literally just an ad for an AI language-learning app) which put the amount of americans that have never left the country closer to 40% (forbes) or 42% (preply) so ymmv with these numbers. Personally, I trust pew over Forbes or some slop factory, but for transparency’s sake I felt I should include them!
It is extremely frustrating how often reading into “why are things like this in the US” leads to racism as the explanation
Do you really think at this point it’s racism? It’s not. Racism, trans, gays, blah blah blah exuse… They care about money. They would murder any person any time for money
The current federal administration has literally implemented objectively racist policies
I agree
Must depend on where you are. I hear it constantly in the South and Midwest. They’re shocked and horrified when they learn about our coworkers who take the local light rail for their daily commute.
I’d kill for a local light rail. I’m so sick of driving.
I’d kill for a local light rail.
Look at the dangerous people who take trains. This is why we need a 1.5 ton
safety blankettruck to keep us safe.1.5 ton truck? What kind of pinko commie BS is a 1.5 ton truck. Son in 'merica the trucks start at 2.5 tons, unless you’re driving one of those rinky-dink soda can things made by “Toyohta” or “kneesan” or whatever. 1.5 ton truck, what a joke…
Plenty of stereotypes, especially in TV and movies, paint public transportation as populated by the poor and downtrodden, and therefore anyone out of their comfort zone on a bus or subway is a target for mugging or worse.
It’s just classism and racism.
And IMO also it would be highly unlikely that the average person would understand that driving is indeed more dangerous, at best most would only parrot the statement back.
I’ve never heard the transportation it’s self is dangerous but the people you will be forced into sharing a small inescapable space could be. Equating car accidents to being assaulted is comparing apples to oranges. No one is going to assault you or sexually assault you in your car, do drugs in your car without your consent, make your car smell horrible, piss in your car, etc. for your average driver, all those things are completely possible and more on public transit.
In my experience people tend to operate in their own bubble when they are driving. Most people are fine and still have enough empathy to not be assholes, but some kinda treat it like they are the main character and will endanger everyone else with their vehicle. I don’t see this as being any different than being in close personal contact with other humans. If anything, being in your own person bubble of a car can remove you from the shared environment and make people more willing to be reckless and dangerous.
Agreed. Nobody thinks public transit is dangerous. If anything I would say upper class people like to say it’s for the poors. Generally everyone in my life has been jealous of other countries with better public transit.
I think when it’s thoroughly planned out it’s amazing. The problem is budgeting and stipulations on how long thy have to spend the money; If they had more time to figure out how to make rails better and redo infrastructure in a way whet wit can make a little more sense people wouldn’t complain as much. Blowing out lanes and making sidewalks bigger to scrunch in lanes and making it one car lane and one bike/bus lane that’s not a good infrastructure option.
I’m for public transportation but there has to be coherent planning not just fuck all we have money let’s do this one part while we can and hope it works out.
I fully believe driving is safer (less likely for anything to go wrong) but more likely to get me killed.
I love driving and I know you’re wrong.
The biggest risk on public transit is, of course, the cars.
I visited St Louis to attend a conference some years ago. I had a free morning so I decided to visit the botanic garden (don’t miss it if you go there!). So my European mind made me look at public transportation: underground to bus station, bus station to destination.
I have to say it was completely safe and I didn’t feel threatened at any time. But I noticed something:
I was the only white guy in the bus. In both trips.
I insist, there was no danger. The rest of people were minding their own business and were mostly people going to work or going home. Some of them gave me weird looks, not menacing, more like ‘who is doing this guy here?’.
So maybe the problem is something that ends in -cism.
I will absolutely corroborate the St. Louis Botanical Gardens. Lovely place, especially in Autumn.
And I’ll also corroborate that transit is seen as something that only “poor people” use, as well as the fact that people of color are almost always seen as “poor” regardless of how wealthy they actually are.
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Meanwhile Australia is like “Hold my beer, cunts” while it drinks the anti-migration, pro-mining no revenue coolaid.
As a European, I absolutely love public transit. But I’m not gonna lie, I’d never even approach an American subway station. That shit looks, and to some degree functions, like medieval dungeons.
That shit looks, and to some degree functions, like medieval dungeons.
As criticism, this one kind of confuses me. I’ve taken public transit in the UK, Oslo in Norway and Istanbul in Turkey, and major transit hubs seem pretty similar in terms of design. Getting to the train platform from the airport to Oslo proper feels like taking the endless series of escalators to reach the Long Island Rail Road in Grand Central. The metro stations near where I was staying in Istanbul wouldn’t have looked terribly out of place in the Bronx or Brooklyn.
The major difference was that the stations and vehicles outside of the US were kept much cleaner, and people actually showed consideration for one another while using it. People would queue up in a more orderly fashion, let others disembark before trying to rush in, and there wasn’t anybody (aside from one kid in Oslo on the last tram for the night one day) blasting music or TikTok videos on their phones. Even on the occasions where I encountered homeless people in those systems, it was night and day between what you deal with in the US and what you see over there. That, and the systems were way more developed than what we have in the US. I don’t just mean in terms of destinations or the sheer reach of the transit systems, but that you’ll have cities with metros, trams, buses, light rail and inter-city high speed rail options all within (mostly, aside from the weirdness of the UK) a single system, giving you tons of options to get around.
In short, I’d be less worried about the apparently sinister design of the stations in an American subway system, and more concerned that you have to share that system with Americans.
It’s very different if you’re looking at NYC or high volume subway on East Coast v a smaller bus or subway station not in top tier city. The busiest subways trend to be nicer than small ones.
The MBTA (Boston and Greater Boston Transit) = polish a turd, it’s still a turd.
I would be happy to take the subway in Boston any day. It beats driving.
Depends on where you’re going. If you had to get to Atrius in Somerville from Melrose you’re better off driving. Otherwise you’re taking the bus to the orange line to take the red line. When if you drove or even used an ebike you’re better off because of how much mroe of a straight shot there it is.
I know, leave earlier but you can’t pay me to think that an hour and a half bus and train commute to what could be a 16 min drive or a 23min ebike ride is more convenient, easy and worth any of the shit that comes with it.
Yes, but the automobile industry does not want you to know that. The same auto industry that made crossing the road at any non-90° angle a crime.
Public transit isnt generally dangerous.
It just generally sucks. Depending on where you have to go and the public means to get there, it can take hours to get somewhere that takes 15-20 minutes by car.
Almost as if its intentionally designed to encourage car ownership.
…only because it has other Americans on it.
You are afraid of public transit because of inflated crime statistics.
I am afraid of public transit because I was late for the bus in kindergarten and got run over chasing it.
We are not the same.
As a Taiwanese, I have a perception that the US is dangerous, with lots of drug users and gun shots, and even in schools. Is that stereotype or fact?
There are lots of drug users, and lots of gun shots, and yes even in schools
But I feel you’re vastly underestimating the size of the US.
There’s a lot of nuance. I’ve lived in a major west coast city for years and I never heard any gunshots in public. Drug users are sometimes visible, it seems to be less common in recent years but you can see it at times. I suppose it depends on what you mean by “drug users”, cannabis is legal in my state and its pretty common to see in public but no one really cares about that, to me “drug users” means hard stuff like fentanyl.
Violent gun crime is a real problem and it is much worse in other parts of the country. Most of the time it isn’t random. There are still mass shootings and random violent crime. I assume Taiwan is much safer. I’ve never been robbed or witnessed any serious violent crime in my 30+ years living here.
Meh, close ‘nuff
Personal experience and thus anecdotal I know, but the light rail line I used to take for work has had issues to say the least. A coworker ended up murdered in one of the more secluded stations two years ago. I’ve personally had a taser pulled on my face only to find out the guy was trying to sell it. All the cars reek of piss and I’ve seen someone having a mental health crisis try to peel off the thin padding off one of the seats.
I really want public transit to work but it does require a firm hand to keep people in line and safe in such enclosed areas. It’s one of the few venues I’d actually welcome some increased security and fare enforcement in.
Those issues aren’t intrinsic to the situation, the solutions are rooted in better social services and education, so people aren’t struggling with untreated issues to begin with.
I almost puked while this 40 something yr old Asian women across from me on the subway methodically peeled skin off of her bare feet.
Everyone banded together and threw her off at the next stop, right?
people way ignore how dangerous driving is. she thinks public transit is dangerous and nothing has ever happened to her in relation to it yet she has been in several auto accidents through her life.
