i just want to point out that “threadiverse” made me flinch like an abused dog, that’s associated with facebook and thus tainted by original sin.
The proper term is “fediverse” which just means “anything that uses the ActivityPub protocol”, which yes means it includes things like mastodon, but that’s because despite their differences you can in fact interact with lemmy stuff from mastodon, so it makes sense!
“Threadiverse” was used before Facebook. Threadiverse refers to a sub verse of the Fediverse.
- Lemmy
- PieFed
- Mbin
It’s different software, doing the same thing differently.
Just like all the different forks of Mastodon.
dev politics and dev opinions. Pick whichever you like it doesn’t matter.
Kbin is dead Mbin is the successor, both have lemmy (reddit-like) and mastodon (twitter-like) capabilities. You can submit a “tweet” and a “post” from the same platform and browse both lemmy and mastodon content.
Lemmmy is the activitypub version of reddit. PieFed is Lemmy but with the ability to see all comments and cross-posts of the same link or post, all collapsed into a single post and single thread to scroll through.
Beehaw deserves its own mention because of how cut off it is from the rest of the fediverse, its its own little walled garden, protected from all the baddies out there in the world.
All the rest is just drama surrounding the devs of all the platforms, and either their questionable political views (lemmy) or their questionable platform moderation views (piefed). So the platforms keep splintering as well as the instances on each platform. Which is a good thing its part of the fun of the fediverse.
TLDR:
- Lemmy is reddit-like with controversial developers (political views).
- Piefed is Lemmy with cross-posts collapsed to one thread, and controversial developers (moderation defaults).
- Mbin is Lemmy (reddit-like) plus mastodon (twitter-like).
- Kbin is dead.
Piefed is Lemmy with cross-posts collapsed to one thread, and controversial developers (moderation defaults)
Would love to hear which moderation defaults of PieFed are so controversial. Your phrasing seems to indicate that Lemmy developers’ support for Putin and Xi Jinping is no more controversial than Piefed developers’ preference to silence trolls and fascists.
The rules for Piefed.social are available here. The software Piefed ships with some default moderation options enabled, which can be disabled should the server admin choose to do so. I think having stricter moderation enabled by default when people set up a new server that they may or may not know how to manage effectively is obviously a better choice than to set the default to “anything goes”.
It seems inescapable that any mention of Piefed moderation provokes discussion of Lemmy politics. It was a pretty neutral portrayal of the threadiverse options and this kind of reinforces that assessment, quite frankly.
https://lemmy.world/post/41022485
https://piefed.social/post/956553
“Due to feedback from a wider audience than before, some of the idiosyncratic features that I built because of my personal obsessions have been made optional and OFF by default, such as the 4chan meme filter, meme communities being flagged as ‘low quality’ and so on”
The piefed dev made some biased decisions, owned up to their mistakes, fixed it, but lost the trust of many users.
This is what drove me off of piefed and back to a lemmy instance.
One more issue: https://join.piefed.social/2024/06/22/piefed-features-for-growing-healthy-communities/
Again, straight from the dev:
"You can be pretty sure anyone with 1488 or even just 88 in their user name is a nazi, for example.
Speaking of which, PieFed has an optional approval queue for new registrations. New accounts with “88” in their name are always put in a different /dev/null queue that leads nowhere. The UI tells them they’re waiting for approval but that approval will never come."
So the dev is shadowbanning people born in 1988 or of asian descent that like the number 888888
https://sonofchina.com/what-does-888-mean-in-chinese/
This type of hamfisted moderation turned many people off of the platform.
The fact that they are implemented in a code level is scary. Even though I disagree with the political views of the Lemmy Devs, the controversial views aren’t reflected in the product they coded, whereas in pie.fed it’s hard coded. Like, why not let instance admins configure those moderation things? Last I read about it there were some filters hard coded in the code that not even admins were able to change if they didn’t change the code itself.
If the default can be changed now, cool. It’s still pretty scary that it’s an opt out feature that had to be changed from forced to opt out though. Again, as much I disagree with the political views of Lemmy Devs, those views didn’t leak into the code of their product. How they moderate ml and such is another thing, I am talking about the code itself.
Please read Lessig’s Code, and Other Laws of Cyberspace. There is no system code that doesn’t implement rules, and no rules that aren’t impacted by its creators’ biases. What matters is intent. It’s clear, the devs of PieFed by implementing anti-Nazi mod tools do not intend to ban people who were born in 1988 or otherwise. You use an edge case to argue a rare injustice trumps the obvious good of tossing neonazis off their platform.
If we can have fewer nazis at the price of a slight inconvenience for users who were born in 1988 and for some reason want to have their birth year in their user name…
Yeah, I’ll take fewer nazis, please.
I’m fine others may disagree, but let’s at least be honest what we talk about when we talk about “controversial moderation”.
Again, what exactly are you talking about?
Which computer software is ever not implemented on a “code level”?
The lead developer recently started a thread in the Piefed meta community specifically to open for people to ask questions about these things. In full:
I have received word that there are people combing through the PieFed code looking for anything that might be harmful. This is excellent and can only make PieFed better and less harmful.
We appreciate their interest in PieFed and look forward to answering any questions and showing people around the code. Please join us at https://chat.piefed.social/ or https://matrix.to/#/#piefed-developers:matrix.org.There’s no need to listen to rumors and amateur speculation when we’re right here and happy to help. Come on in, the water’s fine!
Nobody in the thread managed to come up with an even remotely critical question. I’m not in the chat so I’m not sure if there were any interesting discussions there, but it’s safe to say it’s hard to find the weird conspiracies floating around reflected in the actual development.
If you have an issue, ask in !piefed_meta@piefed.social. If the community agrees your concern is valid I can guarantee you it’ll be addressed.
There’s also the question of what exactly would constitute controversial moderation. If we could hard code out fascists, stalinists, and misogynists, I would be entirely in favour. There’s no need to supply these people with tools for their nonsense. My only issue with it is that it’s not realistic without generating false positives. I don’t speak for Piefed here though, just my personal opinion.
PieFed also does flairs iirc
Also multi-communities is a pretty central feature. A list of differences with Lemmy is maintained here.
Exactly what I was looking for. Thank you!
Multi communities are coming in the Lemmy 1.0 soon-ish.
Is there any talks for lemmy to implement comment aggregation similar to what Piefed has? That’s the biggest selling point of Piefed imo
Do note that Mbin can see crossposts too if the client app (e.g. Interstellar) implements it
That sounds pretty PieFed good. What’s a good android app to access the pie?
Voyager
Interstellar, Blorp, and Summit on Android can all use Piefed instances.
I use blorp. It works well and seems to have active devs.
Blorp only has 1 dev (for now), but if you interested in contributing, don’t be a stranger! And let me know if there’s anything I can do to make Blorp better for you.
After a quick look at the repo it looks like something I could contribute to if I find the time (currently on parental leave so only have few windows where I can).
I haven’t worked with ionic per se but I’ve been reacting and webbing since the dark ages.
Let me know if you have any questions! Even if those questions don’t turn into PRs I’m sure I can improve documentation.
The ionic stuff mostly affects page layout and routing. If you ignore ionic and just consider the page contents, it’s just good old react + a little of my spaghetti code.
Spaghetti is my most prominent language!
Not sure about kbin and mbin but the difference is lemmy is owned by left wing devs who focus on stability while piefed is owned by conservative liberals who focus on bleeding edge and rapidly implementing half baked features (if you like this than good for you I guess, also with lemmy the personal politics of the devs dont really extend much beyond their instance while piefed is more than happy to enforce politics through code).
Mod tools on PieFed are vastly better than on Lemmy. And that’s not a political statement.
PieFed has a social credit score and has maliscious code that will tell you one thing while doing another:
If your account has less than 100 Social Credit Score and is newly created, you are not considered “trustworthy” and there are limitations placed on what your account can do.
If your Social Credit Score is at -10 you cannot downvote, you can’t create new DMs and It flags your account automatically so other people can see your shame.
PieFed uses a hard coded list to rank an instances’ defederation list for its quality. If an instance doesn’t defederate from what Rimu decided the instances stated quality goes down. Ironically none of the paedo instances are on Rimu’s list and in fact tolerates a porn instance that has “jailbait” IYKYK
There are some accusations floating around that he is a vibecoder now so stay away imo
Sources?
Someone linked them above in this thread.
The dev of Lemmy is an asshole, full stop. He’s also incredibly pro Russian and pro Chinese, but first and foremost, he’s an intolerable asshole.
You’ll get banned from his Lemmy instance if you dare to suggest that Russia or China issue propaganda.
And he is a large part of the reason why all the “tankie”, i.e. pro-communist Lemmy instances, have cultures of such obnoxious anti-intellectualism.
Piefed has tools to help spot and remove AI content, and you can react to posts with emojis
Kbin is pure kbin, made by Ernest, who is lovely but sick. Can browse lemmy/kbin/mbin content. Interface is slick and prioritized, which means it can be a bit inefficient resource-wise.
Mbin is kbin but with forked updates and frontend changes. Lighter load, little differences.
Lemmy can browse kbin/mbin/lemmy content. Created by Davel and nutomic. I think you might know about the intricacies of its interface.
Piefed, im not sure about. Very different interface and sorting.
It seems Ernest recovered, and just decided to step away after his health got better!
Unfortunately, due to personal circumstances, I had to step away from actively working on Kbin and leave its further development to the community. Nevertheless, I am happy to see the project thriving, with a dedicated group of users and contributors who continue to push its vision forward.
Open-source has always been important to me, and while I am no longer involved with Kbin, I still believe in the power of community and the potential of open technologies to shape the future of the internet.
Unless the dev of kbin returns, it’s best to just forget it and think of mbin instead.
They’re all really similar but the difference is updawg
Is that like ligma?
What’s that?
Not much, what’s up with – oh wait
