Here something else you can watch a former east German spy who worked in NATO confirming what I told you.
Edit:
Look I get it it sucks that Ukraine is currently being sacrificed for western corporations but I hate to tell you that the EU and The USA don’t really give a fuck about the lives of Ukrainians you’re pawns in an imperial game.
No, I meant earlier invasions (1, 2) and post-WW2 occupation of central Europe (1, 2, and so on). But in fairness I could even for WW2.
The west should definitely stop being imperalist.
Yes, absolutely. But so should Russia. The difference here is probably about whether or not one considers Ukrainians to have a right to self determination. You seem to be keen on the idea of Slavs having so such right against Russia.
Idk why you keep responding to me,
I’m offended by people supporting murdering of my neighbours.
spamming me with your ideological takes.
Which in particular of my claims could use a source?
former east German spy
So someone deeply formatted by the “communist” security services believes that he’s side was right? Should I put it against an ex-CIA operative claiming they were right to set up banana republics? Should we also discuss how the same services dealt with internal opposition(1)? You seriously consider a random apparatchik to be a proper source for any information?
But I could agree with the general idea. Even if for someone it was not earlier, by now it’s very much clear the US administration in, for lack of better word, playing against Europe. In your style I could mess around and claim that’s because of a colour revolution (1), which set up a corrupt oligarchic pro-Russian leader (1), but that’s beside the point.
Still, for example Polish experience of Russia, so some 100 years of occupation (1), a mentioned invasion (1), second mentioned invasion, in cooperation with nazis (1), some genocidal cleansing (1), followed by 50 years of de facto occupation (1) might convince one that it’s better to side with a distant empire against it. People like you like to claim that they have a “geopolitics” or “realpolitic” take on things. This is one, it’s a cynical play of one superpower against the other to have any chance to rebuild after occupation. I could dig up a lengthy youtube essay on that if you were actually interested. You somehow think you’re one of a niche group to understand that. Seem the French committed a dramatic share of their state budget to create their own nuclear program just for fun, since they could have just trusted US.
Bottom line is; the people who you deny any agency are not dying for western corporations, even if one can draw the interests. They are dying to protect their families and communities. Because, as opposed to you, we know Russia for what it is. We know Russians who decided to escape, we know ones who support that state, we’ve been to Russia. And because it, again, invaded the lands where people understand what that means.
Oh and finally; if Ukraine were a NATO trap against Russia - it worked. Russia is already crippled and failing, yet still it would not leave the lands it has invaded, such is its imperialist, expansionist mentality.
So in the link you posted, isn’t a good example of Russian imperialism, seeing as Communism wasn’t really exclusively Russian movement. They seem more like incidents that happened during the Russian civil war. I don’t know enough about the background of the Polish republic, but from my very brief reading about it it seems as though around the same time Poland was fighting both the Czech Republic and Ukraine.
As I said I’m sure internal Polish politics were pretty crazy in the 1920s and 1930s like everywhere in Europe but the example you gave me seems like a very bad example of Russian imperialism.
I know all about Zersetzung and the shitty things security services do. The same thing goes for the United States. I’m not saying that in the immediate and personal sense people are sacrificing themselves for American corporations, in the structural sense they are though. Just like the Russian soldiers are dying to secure the profits for their oligarchic class, it’s truly the same shit on both sides with various posters on the internet choosing teams. I’ve said this 100x but you still don’t get it I don’t support Putin, I just don’t think everything he’s saying about the war in Ukraine is a lie.
One way to avoid war is not to participate in it. Which is why I think its strange that conscientious objectors are harassed in Ukraine. To me that shows that this war isn’t really in the interest of the average person. If you want to call it an imperialist war that’s fine, but please use the correct term for imperialism, which is when capitalists start a war to secure profits.
But you and I just have a fundamentally different view of how the world works so whatever I’m not going to keep arguing with you because it’s pointless.
So in the link you posted, isn’t a good example of Russian imperialism, seeing as Communism wasn’t really exclusively Russian movement.
There’s 5 links in the first paragraph of my response alone. Which one are you talking about? And when was I claiming that it was?
They seem more like incidents that happened during the Russian civil war.
This “incident” engaged some 2 million military personel, caused over 100.000 dead and 200.000 mutilated. Not even taking into consideration the lives and livelihoods of people destroyed. I’d love to have your carefree approach and be able to shrug of stuff like this.
I don’t know enough about the background of the Polish republic, but from my very brief reading about it it seems as though around the same time Poland was fighting both the Czech Republic and Ukraine.
Yes, and? It was also an imperialist state beforehand and arose as a slaver state in the first place, enslaving it’s own people. Maybe check the etymology of “slave” and “Slav”. Which is all beyond the point. I’m not claiming any bourgeois state is or was good. My problem is that you seem to be thinking a even more corrupt and exploitative one is justified to wage war on them. And as that means where I live, and most clearly is very far from where you live it is a bit of an issue for me.
As I said I’m sure internal Polish politics were pretty crazy in the 1920s and 1930s like everywhere in Europe but the example you gave me seems like a very bad example of Russian imperialism.
Maybe take a second to read back why 20 and 30’s were crazy for Poland, what happened before. And then we might have a somewhat more informed discussion. Specifically read up on the expansion of the Russian empire and the borders Putin now wants to uphold. Also maybe what the practices were. How that was latter repeated by Soviet Union, a new state, with the same language and mindset. Might give you some understanding why there’s a sizeable number of European states willing to fight against it.
in the structural sense they are though.
In such a “structural” sense your serving your ISP, hardware producers and so on.
with various posters on the internet choosing teams.
My dear friend. I live and work with people who’s cities are bombed by Russia daily. They did not invade Russia, Russia invaded them. You’re an internet larper who picked a side most likely for some misinformed nostalgia for USSR, we live what you cheer. I personally known great comrades who died in Ukraine, because of the Russian soldiers being there and not rebelling against their oligarchic class using them as tools. This is what you cheer.
I just don’t think everything he’s saying about the war in Ukraine is a lie.
You clearly consume media pushing narratives dropping “[Ukrainians are] bandera nazis with a death cult” like some obvious truism, talking for an hour without saying anything but implying the exact same things as Russian propaganda does. No verifiable facts, but the mood in general concepts are set and you stick with it. So yeah, that’s not a surprise, and that’s the very reason we’re having this discussion. Your argument from the very start is that Russia has somehow right to decide what happens outside of it’s borders. It does not and it’s killing it’s own and Ukrainian citizens proving that.
One way to avoid war is not to participate in it.
If I come into your house, smash your face, take your wallet and keep my shoe on your head, what does not participating in that give you?
Which is why I think its strange that conscientious objectors are harassed in Ukraine.
They should not be. Now how are they treated in Russia?
correct term for imperialism, which is when capitalists start a war to secure profits.
My dear friend, not all people are M-L’s, and we don’t have to share you’re definitions conveniently cut in such a way Russian can never be the “bad guys”.
But you and I just have a fundamentally different view of how the world works
Most likely - not in principle. Only yours is limited by a very tight ideological perspective, and I don’t have that comfort of putting made up ideals over reality.
And BTW have you even watched the spy video? What did it actually confirm? The most on point thing he says is that american generals considered the soviet abilities as a threat and were keen on testing their enemy and it was dangerous (beyond a body of literature on that subject there’s also “dr Strangelove…” saying as much or more), and that Austrian capitalists and a British lord support the concept of exploiting Russia. What in that is new or surprising to anyone? I’m having a very find time finding any actual matter in it other then the guys story as a useful idiot (most likely of both sides and a know leftist student is suddenly let into the most highly secured offices where otherwise only intelligence agencies people work…).
Tldr dude I feel like you’re just saying the same shit anyways. Like I get it you want other people to fight a war for you because you think that Russia is some evil empire. Okay if that’s how you think history works fine. I don’t.
This is the prime thing that drives history now a days. When you look at why something is happening you should ask yourself who’s making money off of this shit. Arms companies have no problem propagandizing people and sending them off to their deaths for their bottom line. I’ve seen it happen multiple times in my life time Ukraine is no different. If you feel so strongly about the war join up and go fight. They need all the bodies they can get.
Nah, my entire point is for Russia to fuck off from Ukraine and for you, and people like you, to stop cheering it, since it’s seems to be much for you to comprehend that both “west bad” and “russia bad” might be valid, and that Russia is also an imperialist capitalist state.
This is the prime thing that drives history now a days (…)
You clearly haven’t read Marks.
If you feel so strongly about the war join up and go fight
Just after you move out from the rotten west into Russia or China.
Huh? You mean ww2? The west should definitely stop being imperalist.
Idk why you keep responding to me, you refuse to give any sources for what you say, you just keep spamming me with your ideological takes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzb_ZasL7sc
Here something else you can watch a former east German spy who worked in NATO confirming what I told you.
Edit: Look I get it it sucks that Ukraine is currently being sacrificed for western corporations but I hate to tell you that the EU and The USA don’t really give a fuck about the lives of Ukrainians you’re pawns in an imperial game.
No, I meant earlier invasions (1, 2) and post-WW2 occupation of central Europe (1, 2, and so on). But in fairness I could even for WW2.
Yes, absolutely. But so should Russia. The difference here is probably about whether or not one considers Ukrainians to have a right to self determination. You seem to be keen on the idea of Slavs having so such right against Russia.
I’m offended by people supporting murdering of my neighbours.
Which in particular of my claims could use a source?
So someone deeply formatted by the “communist” security services believes that he’s side was right? Should I put it against an ex-CIA operative claiming they were right to set up banana republics? Should we also discuss how the same services dealt with internal opposition(1)? You seriously consider a random apparatchik to be a proper source for any information? But I could agree with the general idea. Even if for someone it was not earlier, by now it’s very much clear the US administration in, for lack of better word, playing against Europe. In your style I could mess around and claim that’s because of a colour revolution (1), which set up a corrupt oligarchic pro-Russian leader (1), but that’s beside the point. Still, for example Polish experience of Russia, so some 100 years of occupation (1), a mentioned invasion (1), second mentioned invasion, in cooperation with nazis (1), some genocidal cleansing (1), followed by 50 years of de facto occupation (1) might convince one that it’s better to side with a distant empire against it. People like you like to claim that they have a “geopolitics” or “realpolitic” take on things. This is one, it’s a cynical play of one superpower against the other to have any chance to rebuild after occupation. I could dig up a lengthy youtube essay on that if you were actually interested. You somehow think you’re one of a niche group to understand that. Seem the French committed a dramatic share of their state budget to create their own nuclear program just for fun, since they could have just trusted US.
Bottom line is; the people who you deny any agency are not dying for western corporations, even if one can draw the interests. They are dying to protect their families and communities. Because, as opposed to you, we know Russia for what it is. We know Russians who decided to escape, we know ones who support that state, we’ve been to Russia. And because it, again, invaded the lands where people understand what that means.
Oh and finally; if Ukraine were a NATO trap against Russia - it worked. Russia is already crippled and failing, yet still it would not leave the lands it has invaded, such is its imperialist, expansionist mentality.
So in the link you posted, isn’t a good example of Russian imperialism, seeing as Communism wasn’t really exclusively Russian movement. They seem more like incidents that happened during the Russian civil war. I don’t know enough about the background of the Polish republic, but from my very brief reading about it it seems as though around the same time Poland was fighting both the Czech Republic and Ukraine.
Also this happened? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_Coup_(Poland)
As I said I’m sure internal Polish politics were pretty crazy in the 1920s and 1930s like everywhere in Europe but the example you gave me seems like a very bad example of Russian imperialism.
I know all about Zersetzung and the shitty things security services do. The same thing goes for the United States. I’m not saying that in the immediate and personal sense people are sacrificing themselves for American corporations, in the structural sense they are though. Just like the Russian soldiers are dying to secure the profits for their oligarchic class, it’s truly the same shit on both sides with various posters on the internet choosing teams. I’ve said this 100x but you still don’t get it I don’t support Putin, I just don’t think everything he’s saying about the war in Ukraine is a lie.
One way to avoid war is not to participate in it. Which is why I think its strange that conscientious objectors are harassed in Ukraine. To me that shows that this war isn’t really in the interest of the average person. If you want to call it an imperialist war that’s fine, but please use the correct term for imperialism, which is when capitalists start a war to secure profits.
https://youtu.be/Nk7HUF_dQlg
But you and I just have a fundamentally different view of how the world works so whatever I’m not going to keep arguing with you because it’s pointless.
There’s 5 links in the first paragraph of my response alone. Which one are you talking about? And when was I claiming that it was?
This “incident” engaged some 2 million military personel, caused over 100.000 dead and 200.000 mutilated. Not even taking into consideration the lives and livelihoods of people destroyed. I’d love to have your carefree approach and be able to shrug of stuff like this.
Yes, and? It was also an imperialist state beforehand and arose as a slaver state in the first place, enslaving it’s own people. Maybe check the etymology of “slave” and “Slav”. Which is all beyond the point. I’m not claiming any bourgeois state is or was good. My problem is that you seem to be thinking a even more corrupt and exploitative one is justified to wage war on them. And as that means where I live, and most clearly is very far from where you live it is a bit of an issue for me.
Maybe take a second to read back why 20 and 30’s were crazy for Poland, what happened before. And then we might have a somewhat more informed discussion. Specifically read up on the expansion of the Russian empire and the borders Putin now wants to uphold. Also maybe what the practices were. How that was latter repeated by Soviet Union, a new state, with the same language and mindset. Might give you some understanding why there’s a sizeable number of European states willing to fight against it.
In such a “structural” sense your serving your ISP, hardware producers and so on.
My dear friend. I live and work with people who’s cities are bombed by Russia daily. They did not invade Russia, Russia invaded them. You’re an internet larper who picked a side most likely for some misinformed nostalgia for USSR, we live what you cheer. I personally known great comrades who died in Ukraine, because of the Russian soldiers being there and not rebelling against their oligarchic class using them as tools. This is what you cheer.
You clearly consume media pushing narratives dropping “[Ukrainians are] bandera nazis with a death cult” like some obvious truism, talking for an hour without saying anything but implying the exact same things as Russian propaganda does. No verifiable facts, but the mood in general concepts are set and you stick with it. So yeah, that’s not a surprise, and that’s the very reason we’re having this discussion. Your argument from the very start is that Russia has somehow right to decide what happens outside of it’s borders. It does not and it’s killing it’s own and Ukrainian citizens proving that.
If I come into your house, smash your face, take your wallet and keep my shoe on your head, what does not participating in that give you?
They should not be. Now how are they treated in Russia?
My dear friend, not all people are M-L’s, and we don’t have to share you’re definitions conveniently cut in such a way Russian can never be the “bad guys”.
Most likely - not in principle. Only yours is limited by a very tight ideological perspective, and I don’t have that comfort of putting made up ideals over reality.
And BTW have you even watched the spy video? What did it actually confirm? The most on point thing he says is that american generals considered the soviet abilities as a threat and were keen on testing their enemy and it was dangerous (beyond a body of literature on that subject there’s also “dr Strangelove…” saying as much or more), and that Austrian capitalists and a British lord support the concept of exploiting Russia. What in that is new or surprising to anyone? I’m having a very find time finding any actual matter in it other then the guys story as a useful idiot (most likely of both sides and a know leftist student is suddenly let into the most highly secured offices where otherwise only intelligence agencies people work…).
Tldr dude I feel like you’re just saying the same shit anyways. Like I get it you want other people to fight a war for you because you think that Russia is some evil empire. Okay if that’s how you think history works fine. I don’t.
https://www.dw.com/en/sipri-war-in-ukraine-boosts-arms-manufacturers-profits/a-74941558
This is the prime thing that drives history now a days. When you look at why something is happening you should ask yourself who’s making money off of this shit. Arms companies have no problem propagandizing people and sending them off to their deaths for their bottom line. I’ve seen it happen multiple times in my life time Ukraine is no different. If you feel so strongly about the war join up and go fight. They need all the bodies they can get.
Nah, my entire point is for Russia to fuck off from Ukraine and for you, and people like you, to stop cheering it, since it’s seems to be much for you to comprehend that both “west bad” and “russia bad” might be valid, and that Russia is also an imperialist capitalist state.
You clearly haven’t read Marks.
Just after you move out from the rotten west into Russia or China.