trans women are being specifically mentioned because it is harder for trans women to find a job, or even get support from family (and therefore cover basic necessities) due to prejudice and systemic discrimination against trans women
this comment kinda feels like responding “all lives matter” to someone saying black lives matter
That’s a perfectly reasonable take, society is full of people who are victims of prejudice and have a harder time finding a job, so let’s single out a single group, instead of advocating civilizationaly advanced measures, this way the nazis know who to target. Also, let’s low key call anyone a nazi when they test our below room temp IQ hot takes. *slow clap
it’s a meme, why are you trying so hard to deflect the attention away from trans women?
why dismiss the unique struggles of trans women in favor of unspecified victims of prejudice, without even considering the root of the problem of systemic transphobia, before proposing a solution that has nothing to do with transphobia?
why act like this image has influence on who “the nazis know […] to target”? why even mention that?
why mention being called a nazi when nobody ITT has called you a nazi?
this comment kinda feels like responding “all lives matter” to someone saying black lives matter
why mention being called a nazi when nobody ITT has called you a nazi?
OK, people who said “all lives matter” like, extra breath hole kirk, were not nazis…
Regarding “dismissing the struggles of trans women”, If you were ACTUALLY concerned with people’s rights, you’d understand that the prejudice against trans-women is intersectorial prejudice, it also falls upon other underprivileged classes, hence my response. Granted, my reply doesn’t get me cookie points for social media performative left wing rants and ideological purity, you can bet, if turned into a legislative proposition, it would have far greater chances of being enacted than your performative sectorial anti class war propaganda.
I know that this low-key reads as “why not men” and that I might be underinformed, but, don’t trans men have similar issues? I thought that the trans issues were not gender specific.
they are gender specific, trans women typically face more violence, get paid less and transition later than trans men (and this is exacerbated even more for Black and Indigenous trans people)
this is not to say that trans men face no issues, obviously. but for example, on the pay gap, a study in canada found that
On average, transgender women earned 18 per cent less annually than cisgender men. The earnings gap was 13 per cent for non-binary people and 9.2 per cent for transgender men.
Note that this is the average wage and not comparing equal jobs. I.e. this might also be a skill gap issue due to the effort and strain of transitioning.
To be clear, and sorry if this is a dumb question, when you and the study say “trans(gender) women” does it mean MTF (born male, transitioned to female), or FTM (born female, transitioned to male)?
It’s my understanding that the gender after transgender ____ (e.g. transgender women) referred to their current gender.
your understanding is correct, when we say trans {gender} we mean the gender we are now, not what we thought we were
think of it like this: why would we want to refer to ourselves by what we thought we were instead of what we are? why would we, for example, call ourselves “former men” instead of women?
sorry if my explanation is a bit confusing, but in short, yes trans woman means MTF and trans man means FTM 😅
That makes sense, I just thought it was interesting that the pay gap was for transgender women. I wonder if the same applies to both non passing trans women and passing trans women?
i think it’s just that the poster is a trans women and wanted to raise awareness through a meme about a struggle related to her identity
though i think it’s also worth noting that trans women are being disproportionately targeted due to the unique intersections of oppression faced. (see that one english/british court ruling last year or so that declared trans women as not women, without saying anything about trans men; v-coding; the disproportionate attacks on transgender women of color; the disproportionate attacks on transgender sex workers, most of whom are women, vs cis sex workers)
though i don’t see any reason why she couldn’t have just said trans people. i doubt she thought about it that deeply really
All lives matter could mean a good thing, it got hijacked by right wing people who believe racism is some kind of hoax. But if I were to say for example that all lives matter which means black people deserve the same standards, black people would understand i am on their side too. The original commenter mentioning ubi (universal basic income) also signifies they are on the side of trans women (or to be more honest, minorities who find it hard to earn their living). If there would be something like ebi these women still face the same issues, but at least they can buy food and rent a home (although $1000 might not be enough in the US).
I really like the analogy I read on bluesky somewhere that saying all lives matter is like saying that all houses matter while some houses are on fire.
It’s technically true, technically correct, but it misses the point completely.
I disagree in the sense that i believe it can be interpreted multiple ways if you look at it without any context, but i do also understand it can no longer be seen as neutral because only a single group is using it. Don’t get me wrong, i’m not saying anyone should see it as neutral; but that the way you use it does define its meaning. You can use it anti-black (all lives matter = black lives aren’t worth more) or in support of black people (all lives matter = black people deserve to be safe from police-brutality just like everybody else). Same goes with the original comment, you could see it as $1000 for everybody because trans women shouldn’t get special treatment but as i believe in this case the original commenter meant if you give everybody $1000 trans people are helped by that as well. Below is an image explaining the result between equity and equality, i understand original commenter is not talking about equity for trans women. I’m defending them while understanding that difference.
I guess I should have been more specific in that saying all lives matter in response to someone else saying black lives matter is like saying all houses matter to a fireman while some houses are on fire.
Black folk and trans folk have different backgrounds, culture and desires from the predominantly white-controlled society, which is why this isn’t quite the same. Also most demographics are in dire need of income to match the cost of living in a monetised world, where you have to work on average 4-5 times longer than someone in 1960 to purchase the same necessities, so all could do with a random windfall. That being said I appreciate the sentiment.
trans women are being specifically mentioned because it is harder for trans women to find a job, or even get support from family (and therefore cover basic necessities) due to prejudice and systemic discrimination against trans women
this comment kinda feels like responding “all lives matter” to someone saying black lives matter
That’s a perfectly reasonable take, society is full of people who are victims of prejudice and have a harder time finding a job, so let’s single out a single group, instead of advocating civilizationaly advanced measures, this way the nazis know who to target. Also, let’s low key call anyone a nazi when they test our below room temp IQ hot takes. *slow clap
it’s a meme, why are you trying so hard to deflect the attention away from trans women?
why dismiss the unique struggles of trans women in favor of unspecified victims of prejudice, without even considering the root of the problem of systemic transphobia, before proposing a solution that has nothing to do with transphobia?
why act like this image has influence on who “the nazis know […] to target”? why even mention that?
why mention being called a nazi when nobody ITT has called you a nazi?
OK, people who said “all lives matter” like, extra breath hole kirk, were not nazis…
Regarding “dismissing the struggles of trans women”, If you were ACTUALLY concerned with people’s rights, you’d understand that the prejudice against trans-women is intersectorial prejudice, it also falls upon other underprivileged classes, hence my response. Granted, my reply doesn’t get me cookie points for social media performative left wing rants and ideological purity, you can bet, if turned into a legislative proposition, it would have far greater chances of being enacted than your performative sectorial anti class war propaganda.
I know that this low-key reads as “why not men” and that I might be underinformed, but, don’t trans men have similar issues? I thought that the trans issues were not gender specific.
they are gender specific, trans women typically face more violence, get paid less and transition later than trans men (and this is exacerbated even more for Black and Indigenous trans people)
this is not to say that trans men face no issues, obviously. but for example, on the pay gap, a study in canada found that
Note that this is the average wage and not comparing equal jobs. I.e. this might also be a skill gap issue due to the effort and strain of transitioning.
To be clear, and sorry if this is a dumb question, when you and the study say “trans(gender) women” does it mean MTF (born male, transitioned to female), or FTM (born female, transitioned to male)?
It’s my understanding that the gender after transgender ____ (e.g. transgender women) referred to their current gender.
your understanding is correct, when we say trans {gender} we mean the gender we are now, not what we thought we were
think of it like this: why would we want to refer to ourselves by what we thought we were instead of what we are? why would we, for example, call ourselves “former men” instead of women?
sorry if my explanation is a bit confusing, but in short, yes trans woman means MTF and trans man means FTM 😅
That makes sense, I just thought it was interesting that the pay gap was for transgender women. I wonder if the same applies to both non passing trans women and passing trans women?
i think it’s just that the poster is a trans women and wanted to raise awareness through a meme about a struggle related to her identity
though i think it’s also worth noting that trans women are being disproportionately targeted due to the unique intersections of oppression faced. (see that one english/british court ruling last year or so that declared trans women as not women, without saying anything about trans men; v-coding; the disproportionate attacks on transgender women of color; the disproportionate attacks on transgender sex workers, most of whom are women, vs cis sex workers)
though i don’t see any reason why she couldn’t have just said trans people. i doubt she thought about it that deeply really
Yeah dw, i didn’t read the post that deeply, I interpreted her message as you did.
Agreed on the intersection though.
All lives matter could mean a good thing, it got hijacked by right wing people who believe racism is some kind of hoax. But if I were to say for example that all lives matter which means black people deserve the same standards, black people would understand i am on their side too. The original commenter mentioning ubi (universal basic income) also signifies they are on the side of trans women (or to be more honest, minorities who find it hard to earn their living). If there would be something like ebi these women still face the same issues, but at least they can buy food and rent a home (although $1000 might not be enough in the US).
I really like the analogy I read on bluesky somewhere that saying all lives matter is like saying that all houses matter while some houses are on fire.
It’s technically true, technically correct, but it misses the point completely.
I disagree in the sense that i believe it can be interpreted multiple ways if you look at it without any context, but i do also understand it can no longer be seen as neutral because only a single group is using it. Don’t get me wrong, i’m not saying anyone should see it as neutral; but that the way you use it does define its meaning. You can use it anti-black (all lives matter = black lives aren’t worth more) or in support of black people (all lives matter = black people deserve to be safe from police-brutality just like everybody else). Same goes with the original comment, you could see it as $1000 for everybody because trans women shouldn’t get special treatment but as i believe in this case the original commenter meant if you give everybody $1000 trans people are helped by that as well. Below is an image explaining the result between equity and equality, i understand original commenter is not talking about equity for trans women. I’m defending them while understanding that difference.
I guess I should have been more specific in that saying all lives matter in response to someone else saying black lives matter is like saying all houses matter to a fireman while some houses are on fire.
Black folk and trans folk have different backgrounds, culture and desires from the predominantly white-controlled society, which is why this isn’t quite the same. Also most demographics are in dire need of income to match the cost of living in a monetised world, where you have to work on average 4-5 times longer than someone in 1960 to purchase the same necessities, so all could do with a random windfall. That being said I appreciate the sentiment.