What I hate about the whole “Ukrainians are Nazis” thing, well, two things. It deliberately ignores Russian Neonazis, who are also doing a lot of bad shit in the world. But they’re ignored because for Tankies, it is inconvenient that the state that is now just oligarchic capitalist might also host Nazis. Because their Anti-US position reduces it to a good thing, which is not very Marxist.
And also. Like,sure. Ukrainians have a far-right part of their population, like any other country. BUT RUSSIA DEFINITELY HELPED IT. Literally, when you invade a country, you help its nationalist sentiments, which will result in more Nazis and fascists. And, by the way, Russia has united with the US in spreading far-right propaganda, so there’s that.
I mean even if they are, invading a country to stop the so called “nazi” and then occupy their land and take their child, is kinda like a nazi move. People who hate US doing this to multiple other country should immediately see how stupid the action are, but unfortunately tankie aren’t very smart.
deleted by creator
Me when I’m making shit up
Me when I’m making everything about the USSR. Like all I said was that modern Russia is far-right. I didn’t say anything about the USSR here. I have just said that they have the same goals as the US.
But no, we have to throw everything on the US, how will fellow tankies see that I’m based and redpilled otherwise???
well obviously russia needs that critical support
deleted by creator
Bitch please yeltsin was in washington a short time before the so called perestroika.
Impressively bad history.
You know the US and western capitalists spent 70 years trying to a sabotage it, yes? And now we’re back to nationstate and their endless wars.
As we all know, the Soviet Union didn’t involve supporting nation-states or endless wars, certainly not both. /s
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
nice rage bait, the lockheed martin bit kinda tipped your hand tho
deleted by creator
That’s soooo true, everyone should engage with every comment you make and if they don’t, it must mean you’re right.
Brb gonna go comment “pee pee = poo poo” in a bunch of threads, get downvoted, and use it as confirmation that urine and feces are the same thing
deleted by creator
No it’s not lol
Birds produce both feces and urine, they just expel them together
deleted by creator
Got banned from .ml for saying Marx would be sad
That is, strictly speaking, not true. Marx would be furious.
But Putin said Lenin invented Ukraine. Does this mean Lenin was a Zionist?
Marxism-Leninism-Zionism
none if any of that is an excuse for Russia to invade Ukraine.
There is also no excuse for Israel’s ongoing genocide, nor the shitfuckery the US is up to bit those are separate things.
Why do they keep using nazi when fascist is the word they should be using when it comes to nationalist ideologies?
Also nationalsocialism is inherently anti-Jew, therefore being nazi and zionist doesn’t really work out. Pick one or none, but you can’t have both.
tbf, one could theoretically have both. Nazis were down with Zionism insofar as it proposed to take all the Jews out of everywhere else and bring them to Palestine. Though they weren’t wedded to Palestine; the Nazis also proposed Madagascar.
Politics, strange bedfellows, etc.
The bit where it gets strange is when you accuse a Jewish man of being a Nazi for the crime of (checks notes) wanting to reside in a country that isn’t a Jewish ethnostate and has no plans to become one.
The reason why they use ‘Nazi’ is either because Nazi has stronger genocidal connotations, or because Russian propaganda pushes that anyone who opposes Russia as a Nazi, as the great crime of the Nazis to Russian ultranationalists is neither fascism nor genocide (else they might have to give a stern look to Great Leader Stalin) but opposing Glorious Mother Russia.
TBH I don’t think national socialism is that closely linked to antisemitism. If someone does everything else like the German WW2 nazis but replaces hate against Jews with hate against any other mostly powerless minority, I think it’s fair game to call that someone a nazi. Though in that sense a lot of people who often get called nazis still aren’t nazis in a narrow sense, because their organizational structure and general ideology is too different.
On the other hand, it’s usually just used as a shorthand/slur for “extreme rightwinger” (are those even necessarily fascist?), and IMO that’s not that much of an issue.
Palestinians are semites too.
TFW 19th century German Jew haters fail at ethnology and/or latin
Anywhere where I look up the characteristics on nazism, “fervent antisemitism” is a key element. It is mostly what sets it apart from fascism and a corporative state (Ständestaat/Austrofascism).
The word literally gets used to describe someone that’s too intense about grammar. Israel is constantly called a Nazi state (and rightly so because of the similarities).
deleted by creator
Also nationalsocialism is inherently anti-Jew, therefore being nazi and zionist doesn’t really work out. Pick one or none, but you can’t have both.
It’s not that the Nazis were anti-Jewish; many historical Zionists were anti-Jewish. It’s that the Nazis preferred genocide through mass murder over genocide through mass deportation.
A lot of modern antisemites see Israel as a solution to their problems.
You know why
deleted by creator
So anyone want to inform him that Zelenskyy got pissed off by Isreal buying stolen grain so much he is considering sanctioning Isreal over it?
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
And here I thought you’d normally not be a nazi and a zionist at the same time as in exterminate and wanting them to take Palestinian land.
“No upvotes, 13 hours ago”
Not sure this is the own you think it is
Russia bad, sure, but the tankie isn’t wrong now, is he? 🤔
Yes they are!
First, as the other commentator said: fascist is the word they probably meant, because I seriously doubt a lot of Zionists believe in the aryan superiority and have the wish for Germany to rule the world.
Second, saying Ukraine is inexplorably linked to Zionism is such a stupid take. I don’t really know where to start. Care to explain why you think that is true?
So only thing that the tankie COULD be ‘not wrong’ about is Zelensky being a Zionist. Might be true, I don’t know. But since he was also criticised by Israel for comparing Ukraine’s situation to the holocaust as ‘close to holocaust denial’ I think it is hard to differentiate between what he thinks he has to say, in order to secure support for his country from those countries willing to support them (USA and Europe mainly), and what his personal beliefs are. And if you think that matters in regard to a politician.
deleted by creator
Literally the first links you’ll find on Google from Israeli/Jewish sources on Ukraine and Zionism tell you the whole picture (https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/zionism-in-ukraine/), likewise with Western sources and the Nazism problem in Ukraine (https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/ukraine-has-nazi-problem-vladimir-putin-s-denazification-claim-war-ncna1290946), and Zelensky is not just Jewish but a full blown Zionist (easy links you can find yourself).
Come on now. You can root for your team or whatever, just don’t be dishonest in an easy fact checkable way. 🥲
…did you actually read your link? I admittedly only read the intro, then skipped down to the discussion of Zionism in the Ukraine in the modern era, when it brings up Zelensky, but literally the only “information” in there is a series of contradictory statements with zero evidence for any of them, and then an irrelevent conclusion. It reads like an answer one of my poorly performing junior high students would write when they didn’t actually read the story we’re discussing. “Zelensky is totally a Zionist because he’s jewish. Yes, he has focused on his state, making it as great as he can, and otherwise has shown no indication that he thinks the Jewish people should own Palestine, but that’s totally Zionist thought! He even said Israel should do thinks for his country, meaning he must be pro-Israel! No, I don’t need sources, quotes or other verifiable information, just trust me bro!” I mean, are you for real?
It’s hard for you to claim others are being dishonest when it’s clear you haven’t, or possibly can’t, read the “sources” you’re posting.
deleted by creator
This is not the gotcha that you seem to think it is.
I read the section relevant to the argument in full. I read introductory sentences throughout to make sure I wasn’t missing important context. The source provided makes no attempt to prove the things claimed, simply stating them as fact, without evidence. The rise of zionism in the Ukraine in the 1800s does not make Zelensky a zionist, and definitely doesn’t make him a nazi, and as interesting as it is, I don’t have time to learn the social-religious history of every nation to deconstruct Lemmy arguments.
Please make sure the entire article is relevant to the discussion at hand before you start aimlessly accusing others of being hypocrits.
deleted by creator
Zelensky IS a zionist ffs
Sure, whatever. He could be. The post I was responding to didn’t prove that, which is the only point I have made, so I am not sure what your goal here is.
And thus a nazi.
These are two exclusive ideologies; please stop using the word “nazi” as a stand in for fascist and/or genocidal maniac. You cannot believe in the German Ubermensch and the eradication of the Jewish people while also believing in God given Jewish sovereignty. Words means things.
I don’t get it, did I offend your primary account in the past? Did I earn myself an angry tanky stalker? The misdirection and whataboutism reeks of obsessing about winning an argument rather than assessing the truth. Your last point seems to be some form of attempt at arguing that, because I am posting from a .ca instance, I’m on the side of genocidal supremecy, though it’s hard to tell, because that first sentence is literally gibberish. It’s a good thing you borrowed a well-worded analogy, otherwise I might genuinely have had no idea what it is you’re trying to communicate. But honestly, it’s so pointlessly ungrounded and irrelevent that it just reads like you’re mad at me for some reason and spewing whatever form of biased vitriol you can dredge up.
hehe this guy isn’t media literate and it shows
Can’t you see, they’re Zionists but also hate Jews at the same time. Very simple, just ignore the extreme contradictions.
What do you think happens in Israel even? The actual Jews, regardless of ethnicity, more often than not oppose the murderous regime and they get harassed and incarcerated for it. No contradiction: the “Jewish identity” is weaponised and used as a shield to continue their colonizing.
That’s not at all what your articles you posted said.
Oh, that’s a quick Google away as well (“orthodox Jews, military conscription, military support and Israel” would be a good query). I posted those articles just to show that the background truths about the links between Ukraine and Zionism, today and yesterday, are all there and acknowledged even by Israelis/Western “Jews”, that’s all. And I didn’t want a troll to be “oh that’s your source!?”. If even the criminals talk about it, then I don’t have to do much more but show it, even if I don’t like Israeli/Western sources by default. Not that it matters much in the end, as they’re American puppets one way or another. 🤷
The “hehe” gave the ragebait away but you almost got me!
