She doesn’t brandish the bottle at all. She picked it up and stood still, in a defensive posture. Which is fully understandable since he’s assaulted her twice already.
Feelings are clearly running high in this thread but I’m going to stand by the argument I’ve made elsewhere, instead of the knee jerk reactionary shit.
If you can’t flip the gender roles this exchange and make the same conclusions, you’ve come to the wrong conclusion.
She initiated indirect physical contact. She initiated direct physical contact. She initiated escalation to potentially deadly force. And in her face book post she at least confirms the first two parts, with video evidence to corroborate. She needs a real lawyer because the argument that because she is smaller and physically weaker will end up with her catching charges.
She initiated this. She said she initiated this. The video evidence says she initiated this. She took the first step up each element of the escalation ladder (indirect use of force -> direct use of force -> use of deadly force). She made no efforts to de escalate.
If you want her to win, she needs a fucking lawyer. Because even a basically competent lawyer is going to be able to present her own words, her Facebook post on this, and be able to show that she knew she was the party to step up the escalation ladder.
She needs a lawyer and to press charges because if she doesn’t, he will. And with the evidence as presented here, he’d have a pretty solid case for self defense. Yes he used far to much force and went to far. But he at no point initiated this. Each turn of the wheel has him responding to her escalation. He tried two times to leave the situation. The first time unsuccessfully because she was brandishing a weapon. These are material facts that she acknowledged in her Facebook post, and which can be plainly seen in the video. It doesn’t matter if we think his use of force in response is excessive, if she keeps stepping up the escalation ladder.
Nope it does not and again you’re not a fucking law expert stop talking like you are. You’re so wrong all over this page you fucking dork.
The entire situation decides intent. Her intent all over is general, touches the bottle with no intent to do harm or anything not illegal, not offensive. Grabs the bottle with general intent, is not swinging it or brandishing it or showing intent to use it as a weapon, no crime.
He throws the drink in her face, general intent. Once he physically interacted with her that is no longer general and it switches all his actions to specific intent.
You’re fucking dumb literally shut up dude holy fuck
I see her trying to grab a drink from him, possibly it is hers and he’s taking it away, or possibly she is being the aggressor. We can’t know from the footage but her friend’s social media story claims she was on the middle of rejecting him, so if that is the case everything I see here is defensive.
I mean I can only evaluate from what I see here in this footage. I have it marked up with 4 escalation points. She grabs the drink out of his hands. She steps into his space to slap him. He front kicks her. She picks up a weapon.
I see one, maybe two de-escalation points. He grabs his phone and bag and tries to leave. At that point she has a weapon in her right hand. I think its reasonable to not turn your back on someone brandishing a weapon. The second de-escalation point is him leaving after he pushes her to the ground.
You can make an honest argument from the evidence that the man in this footage tried to de-escalate the situation, and that the aggressor did not.
If this guy gets an even basically competent lawyer and this video is submitted as evidence, she’s cooked.
She very clearly tries to grab a drink out of his hands as he’s picking it up. He then, yes, throws it into her face after it started to spill (she’s grabbing at the bottom of the glass while he’s holding the top, so it sloshes out). She then aggressively steps up into him to slap him (right hand up, coming down to the left). She pushes her back, then steps, aggressively into her space (she’s already on the ground) with a right front kick to her right hip, putting her on the ground again.
She gets up from this as he’s trying to de-escalate by leaving the situation (he picks up his bag and phone, is heading away) and she picks up a weapon (a bottle). He then throat punch/ pushes her back to the ground, and continues to leave the situation.
She initiated the conflict, and at I’d say 3/4 escalation points where the conflict escalated, she initiated the escalation. She grabbed the glass out of his hand (initiation), she stepped into his space to slap him (escalation), he front kicked her to the ground after she was trying to get back up (escalation), she picked up a weapon as he tried to leave (escalation).
Well switch the gender roles and see if you come to the same conclusion.
A man goes to grab a drink from a woman’s hand, and as it spills she throws it into his face. He then steps into her space to slap her, and she pushes him back across a bench. She then steps into his space to kick him back to the ground. She grabs her phone and bag in an effort to leave, while the man grabs a weapon (a bottle) and brandishes it aggressively. She then throat punches him and he goes down. She continues to leave.
If you can’t go through the same scenario with the gender roles reversed and land on the same conclusion, you’ve come to the wrong conclusion.
I’m sorry where do you see her attacking him?
If someone grabs a bottle in an altercation, you don’t wait for them to use it.
She doesn’t advance with the bottle once she has it. She’s grabbing it for defense.
He was leaving and she advanced and grabbed the bottle. If she was trying to defend herself, she wouldn’t go towards him.
He’s literally trying to leave. He grabbed his phone and bag and headed for the door. Then he has to deal with someone brandishing a weapon.
She doesn’t brandish the bottle at all. She picked it up and stood still, in a defensive posture. Which is fully understandable since he’s assaulted her twice already.
The guy is the aggressor.
If you’re this woman’s lawyer, she’s going to go to jail.
Hey thanks for confirming I don’t have to take any of your comments seriously ever again.
Feelings are clearly running high in this thread but I’m going to stand by the argument I’ve made elsewhere, instead of the knee jerk reactionary shit.
If you can’t flip the gender roles this exchange and make the same conclusions, you’ve come to the wrong conclusion.
She initiated indirect physical contact. She initiated direct physical contact. She initiated escalation to potentially deadly force. And in her face book post she at least confirms the first two parts, with video evidence to corroborate. She needs a real lawyer because the argument that because she is smaller and physically weaker will end up with her catching charges.
She initiated this. She said she initiated this. The video evidence says she initiated this. She took the first step up each element of the escalation ladder (indirect use of force -> direct use of force -> use of deadly force). She made no efforts to de escalate.
If you want her to win, she needs a fucking lawyer. Because even a basically competent lawyer is going to be able to present her own words, her Facebook post on this, and be able to show that she knew she was the party to step up the escalation ladder.
She needs a lawyer and to press charges because if she doesn’t, he will. And with the evidence as presented here, he’d have a pretty solid case for self defense. Yes he used far to much force and went to far. But he at no point initiated this. Each turn of the wheel has him responding to her escalation. He tried two times to leave the situation. The first time unsuccessfully because she was brandishing a weapon. These are material facts that she acknowledged in her Facebook post, and which can be plainly seen in the video. It doesn’t matter if we think his use of force in response is excessive, if she keeps stepping up the escalation ladder.
I love you fuckin idiots that think you know the law.
Google specific and general intent. Learn something.
Specific intent to cause harm is a massive fucking problem
Battery with general intent is a misdemeanor.
That describes both her grabbing of the glass, and his splashing her with the contents. General intent, not specific intent.
That describes her lunging across the table and hitting him. A specific intent to cause harm.
I agree with the parent comment: if you raise this “general intent vs specific intent” argument as this woman’s lawyer, she’s going to jail.
Nope it does not and again you’re not a fucking law expert stop talking like you are. You’re so wrong all over this page you fucking dork.
The entire situation decides intent. Her intent all over is general, touches the bottle with no intent to do harm or anything not illegal, not offensive. Grabs the bottle with general intent, is not swinging it or brandishing it or showing intent to use it as a weapon, no crime.
He throws the drink in her face, general intent. Once he physically interacted with her that is no longer general and it switches all his actions to specific intent.
You’re fucking dumb literally shut up dude holy fuck
She attacks first and comes back a few times.
I see her trying to grab a drink from him, possibly it is hers and he’s taking it away, or possibly she is being the aggressor. We can’t know from the footage but her friend’s social media story claims she was on the middle of rejecting him, so if that is the case everything I see here is defensive.
I mean I can only evaluate from what I see here in this footage. I have it marked up with 4 escalation points. She grabs the drink out of his hands. She steps into his space to slap him. He front kicks her. She picks up a weapon.
I see one, maybe two de-escalation points. He grabs his phone and bag and tries to leave. At that point she has a weapon in her right hand. I think its reasonable to not turn your back on someone brandishing a weapon. The second de-escalation point is him leaving after he pushes her to the ground.
You can make an honest argument from the evidence that the man in this footage tried to de-escalate the situation, and that the aggressor did not.
If this guy gets an even basically competent lawyer and this video is submitted as evidence, she’s cooked.
Are you watching the same video i am? He throws a drink in her face to start the whole thing
She very clearly tries to grab a drink out of his hands as he’s picking it up. He then, yes, throws it into her face after it started to spill (she’s grabbing at the bottom of the glass while he’s holding the top, so it sloshes out). She then aggressively steps up into him to slap him (right hand up, coming down to the left). She pushes her back, then steps, aggressively into her space (she’s already on the ground) with a right front kick to her right hip, putting her on the ground again.
She gets up from this as he’s trying to de-escalate by leaving the situation (he picks up his bag and phone, is heading away) and she picks up a weapon (a bottle). He then throat punch/ pushes her back to the ground, and continues to leave the situation.
She initiated the conflict, and at I’d say 3/4 escalation points where the conflict escalated, she initiated the escalation. She grabbed the glass out of his hand (initiation), she stepped into his space to slap him (escalation), he front kicked her to the ground after she was trying to get back up (escalation), she picked up a weapon as he tried to leave (escalation).
Looks like we watched the same video but have different judgment about when the “attack” started.
Well switch the gender roles and see if you come to the same conclusion.
A man goes to grab a drink from a woman’s hand, and as it spills she throws it into his face. He then steps into her space to slap her, and she pushes him back across a bench. She then steps into his space to kick him back to the ground. She grabs her phone and bag in an effort to leave, while the man grabs a weapon (a bottle) and brandishes it aggressively. She then throat punches him and he goes down. She continues to leave.
If you can’t go through the same scenario with the gender roles reversed and land on the same conclusion, you’ve come to the wrong conclusion.
Same conclusion. Throwing a drink into a person’s face is assault but just grabbing for a drink isn’t.
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